[spellcasterbrent]

Einstein, on 17 November 2009 - 02:41 PM, said:

I don't think that we can point to Islamic fundamentalist terrorism or the Crusades or pedophilia among Catholic priests and say that it causes us to "grow" as people.

it is rather clear that you have a beef with religion in general by this statement. Why do you even argue about the existence of a God when all your really want to say is that nothing exists at all, are you trying to get people to agree with you because your methods are incredibly awful.

[Michael]

God is dead, didn't you watch season 4&5 of Supernatural? Do you think the stuff thats been happening since the 20th century would of happened if God was alive???

[Mad Hatter]

Michael, on 19 November 2009 - 03:09 PM, said:

God is dead, didn't you watch season 4&5 of Supernatural? Do you think the stuff thats been happening since the 20th century would of happened if God was alive???

I honestly and seriously pity you if you're taking your advice and beliefs from a program, much less one that is a television series. As informative and educational as TV can possibly get, one should rarely rely upon it primarily as a basis for facts and beliefs.

Congratulations. All you've done is replace one abstract idol with one that isn't abstract, let alone very factual but merely attempts to pitifully replicate those aspects. You've managed to replace an abstract idol with one that is far more superficial and mundane. Good job.

[Ira Aeternam]

Einstein, on 16 November 2009 - 08:12 PM, said:

I don't understand this reply. Nowhere in my statement did I say science could answer "why," nor did I even refer to science at all. I merely said that there is no reason to ask why, if we cannot answer that question.

You said in your post something about "why", I misunderstood exactly what you had intended to say and I apologize for that. I re-read your post a time or two and know what you meant now.

Einstein, on 17 November 2009 - 08:25 AM, said:

We don't live in a vacuum; people have tried to answer the question for thousands of years. At this point, it's pretty reasonable to claim that we can't determine whether God exists, just by thinking about it. I'd like to think we're all a little smarter than Descartes by now.

I'd argue that we are, in fact, no smarter than Descartes was. We are perhaps, more knowledgable or better informed, but I don't believe we are more intelligent. We know more now due to the times we live in than he did.

[Michael]

Da Mad Hatter, on 19 November 2009 - 09:56 PM, said:

I honestly and seriously pity you if you're taking your advice and beliefs from a program, much less one that is a television series. As informative and educational as TV can possibly get, one should rarely rely upon it primarily as a basis for facts and beliefs.

Congratulations. All you've done is replace one abstract idol with one that isn't abstract, let alone very factual but merely attempts to pitifully replicate those aspects. You've managed to replace an abstract idol with one that is far more superficial and mundane. Good job.

clearly you took the bait. anyways, to get more serious; I don't have enough proof that there is an omnipotent creater of the universe that lives in a perfect kingdom called "heaven" and he watches over everyone to see if they've been naughty or nice to choose whether they spend eternity with him, or in a place so EVIL its unimaginable. makes sense to you? if you belive in the bible and "god" then you believe we are his only creations, you really think there's no other intelligent life out there in the vast universe? To me, its ludicrous to belive in a god and that we are so special that we are his only creations. ofcourse you can argue the bible only tells us about "us" and that it doesnt specifically state we are alone in the universe, but whatever.. oh and the earth is only 2000 years old huh, you'd have to belive that to belive in god.. explain fossil fuels to your science teacher using those facts... haha

religion is a security blanket for the weak minded who are afraid of what happens when they die. whatever floats your boat.

EDIT: I do appreciate what the bible has done for mankind, though. thank "god" there was a bible to base human function around. I could only imagine what the world would be like if we didnt have the 10 commandments to shape our behavior, we'd be savages.. it was also a form of control if you ask me.

This post has been edited by Michael: 24 November 2009 - 12:06 AM

[Einstein]

spellcasterbrent, on 19 November 2009 - 02:35 PM, said:

it is rather clear that you have a beef with religion in general by this statement.

No, the only thing that's clear is that you're embarrassed about what your belief system has justified. If you really believed in it, you would be defending those acts, or explaining why they aren't the same thing as what you believe in. At any rate, the fact that they sound bad is because they are bad, not because I have a problem with religion.

[DrendDragonspawn]

Having grown up in the single craziest group of christians on this planet, I can safely say, no, I do not believe in God. If a beneficent being existed controlling and dictating our lives the way the christian holey (intentional spelling) books claim, then the world would be a completely different place. I do not believe in the Muslim god, and I definitely don't believe in the Judaic god. I don't see polytheistic religions as good either. The fact is that religion developed, not to comfort people, but to control them. It was a way for theocrats and other governmental entities to guilt people into doing their political whims. What were the crusades? A political movement. What is a Jihad? A political movement. They just invoke the name of whatever deity they want and call it "holy." I also don't turn to science to fill the controlling void that religion fills with most people. Was religion useful during the past? Yes. Undoubtedly. Was it a necessary stepping stone in the evolution of man as a cognizant, sentient being? Indubitably. Is it necessary today, with the advances in technology, communications and transportation, that has turned this race into one big species? No. It isn't. Humans no longer intuitively need that "higher power" to function. We can explain these phenomena with mathematical models and accurately reproduce them on smaller scales using these models. The facts of the universe are continuing to unravel before the eyes of researchers. Lightning strikes are not Zeus/Thor/Allah or whatever you want to call it striking people down, as was once thought. It is static electricity discharging between positively and negatively charged ionic zones.

Now, there are still unanswered questions. Where did matter come from? How does it exist? Why does it exist? What created matter? The big bang, or some revision, is pretty well universally accepted by learned folk any more. Where did that super concentrated ball of mass come from? What made it explode? Even if you are religious, where did your god come from? Every creation myth says that something just existed, whether it was Kronos, Yahweh, Allah, Jehovah, or a super concentrated ball of mass. The real question is where did that come from?